Chat Log: Donald Tyson and Meridjet re: Free Will

November 2003 — This is a chat log between Meridjet and Donald Tyson from 5 years ago; it’s amazing to think that much time has gone by! They start out discussing Don’s idea regarding spirits helping psychiatrists with subconscious work, and progress into a theological discussion about angels and whether or not they have free will. It’s pretty interesting, but the second section is the real meat of the discussion.

Spirits and Psychological Work

Don: Years ago, I had the idea of psychiatrists using spirits as therapeutic agents to help their patients.

Meridjet: Really?

Don: Yes. It seemed to me that it might be a worthwhile form of therapy. Trouble is, no psychiatrist would dare to try it.

Meridjet: What would be the methodology?

Don: None would know how to attempt it, either. My idea was that a psychiatrist could bypass the conscious mind of his patient and communicate with the unconscious via the agency of a spirit.

Meridjet: Heh. Yes. Very good.

Don: In that way the psychiatrist could get right to the root of the problem.

Meridjet: However, the mind doesn’t often allow quick fixes, particularly thru the unconscious.

Don: I also speculated to myself that an indwelling spirit might be able to make helpful changes.

I’ve noticed with Sheta. The unconscious tends to try to protect itself, and resists change.

Meridjet: Indwelling?

Yes, but it is fascinating to work with.

Don: A spirit that is manifesting through a person. As you are through Sheta.

Meridjet: Ok, I was clarifying.

Don: Since Sheta’s subconscious can prevent you from speaking through her via the keyboard, when it wants, this approach might have certain limitations, however. lol

Meridjet: Maybe something else will happen by the time she needs me to give her information on a practical level, for the book.

Don: I don’t think you will have trouble helping her with the book. The book will contain general information.

Meridjet: As far as working with a professional with regard to her, I don’t really need one.

Don: I understand. My speculation was that a spirit could help a psychiatrist. I never even considered that a psychiatrist could help a spirit.

Meridjet: Yes, perhaps in the way that I relay information and influence on her by speaking to you. ;)

Don: I don’t mind being a sounding board.

Meridjet: :) I appreciate it.

Angels and Free Will

Meridjet: How is your companion?

Don: My dear [SC] is wonderful.

Meridjet: :) Excellent.

Don: May she be blessed. I always bless her when I speak or think her name.

Meridjet: :) That is very nice of you.

Don: The blessing for me is a way of expressing, in a formal and structured manner, my love for [my SC]. She is the only one I bless on a regular basis.

Meridjet: I’m sure that she blesses you also.

Don: :-) That’s a nice thought. Never had that thought myself.

Meridjet: :) Why not?

Don: I don’t know. Never occurred to me.

Meridjet: Hmm. It should.

Don: I guess I just assumed it was always we humans who did the blessing. Calling down the blessing of divine love, I mean.

Meridjet:Why would it be limited to humans?

Don: Good question. I don’t know. Maybe because it is active, and might require free will?

Meridjet: And spirits don’t have free will?

Don: Well, I don’t think angels are supposed to have it. They take their orders from God, and never deviate from God’s purpose, so that is supposed to eliminate the action of free will. On the other hand, middle spirits are thought by some to have free will.

Meridjet: Their will is aligned.

Don: Spirits of a mixed nature, I mean.

Meridjet: ok. I have yet to meet a being with absolutely no free will.

Don: Now that you mention it, I don’t believe I’ve ever met such a being, either.

Meridjet: :) The idea of a being without will suggests that they are no longer contributing to the evolution because their actions are rote and mean nothing to them. If they meant something, they’d be able to choose. This probably sounds odd. They, by acting out the will of another, do not have consequences, hence they do not learn. This is useless.

Don: Yes. No free will, no karmic burden. No karmic burden, no evolution.

Meridjet: Correct. There are no useless beings.

Don: My concept of the true angel — God’s messenger — is a being who is really a kind of projection or extension of God. Not an independent being at all. But maybe such angels don’t exist.

Meridjet: Well, the word angel is human, and the concepts held of angels are human, and I can only comment on your concepts, not on “angels.”

Don: Here’s my take on free will. Before the fall of Man, there was no free will. All beings obeyed a higher command without question.

Meridjet: Your concept of angels, as beings with no independence, is sort of a paradox. Paradox is often in play; however, like many other “creatures” which are the extension of the will of the creator, they are not … what’s a good word? They are so much dissipating energy.

Don: They did not think or act apart from the higher authority. The fall marks separation from this authority, and freedom to choose either good or evil.

Meridjet: ok. that is one view. I am operating under a different paradigm at this time. Define “The fall.”

Don: The fall of man mythology is mirrored in the fall of the angels from heaven. Basically the same myth. The myth of the Fall says that Adam and Eve were told not to eat of the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The serpent — symbol of Gnosis — gave Eve the apple of knowledge.

Meridjet: Do you believe in the creation story of the Christian Bible above all other concepts?

Don: With that knowledge came free will. No, I don’t believe in the creation story in the least detail. However, myths contain many powerful truths that can be instructive.

Meridjet: You are managing to give that impression. Yes, that is very true.

Don: When I speak of the creation myth, I am speaking in mythic terms, symbolic terms. I suppose that confuses the people I talk to, sometimes.

Meridjet: It is difficult at times to get beyond the symbology to the heart of the matter, when the symbology is so bogged down with worldwide psychological baggage.

Don: Anyway, the sum of it is that free will is basically the ability to say “no.”

Meridjet: Indeed. :)

Don: Angels never say no to their higher authority. Therefore, the belief has been among some theologians that then don’t possess free will.

Meridjet: Free will came with the birth of independence. Independence is itself a birthright.

Angels have said no, in that myth, in fact.

Don: Yes, those fallen angels acquired free will, just as Adam and Eve acquired it.

Meridjet: Hmm… Wonder how they did that.

Don: Hmmmm.

Meridjet: :)

Don: :-( Good question.

Meridjet: lol

Don: Nice one to ponder. How did Lucifer rebel?

Meridjet: Perhaps he saw where he would be most useful.

Don: He does serve a purpose.

Meridjet: Yes

Don: He was the one who tempted Job. You make a good point.

Meridjet: :)

Don: Lucifer must have had free will of some sort, to rebel in the first place, unless…

Meridjet: indeed.

Don: Unless his rebellion is not really free at all, but another form of obedience.

Meridjet: If you choose to do what is asked of you, are you exercising free will?

Don: Yes, if sometimes you choose not to. But are you, if you always choose to obey?

Meridjet: if you choose, you have exercised free will.

Don: Is it a choice, when it never varies?

Meridjet: It always varies, eventually.

Don: According to myth, good little angels never say no.

Meridjet: :)

Don: Damn. This free will is like a slippery eel.

Meridjet: Perhaps before they were good little angels. Perhaps they *are* so much dissipating energy. Archetypal servitors.

Don: I’ve noticed this before.

Meridjet: :)

Don: Yes, maybe there is a fundamental difference between good angels — projections of godhead — and evil angels — independent beings.

Meridjet: Evil?

Don: Perhaps when a projection of god chooses independence, it becomes self-motivated.

Meridjet: What is evil?

Perhaps god grants it.

Don: Ha, that’s what Pontius Pilot asked Jesus, and Jesus didn’t answer.

Meridjet: :) How can you label something evil if you can’t define what evil is?

Don: I’m guessing Jesus was smarter than I am.

You can define evil, I suppose. It is the willful disobedience of divine law.

Meridjet: What is divine law?

Don: Now you’re just being irritating.

Meridjet: No. How many beings do you think there are who know what divine law is?

Don: One way to get out of a debate is to start asking your opponent to define his terms.

Meridjet: If they don’t know what it is, how can they disobey it? Willfully, I mean.

Don: There’s even a name for it in rhetoric. Which, I don’t remember.

Meridjet: That reduces evil to a very small scale.

Don: Well, if we assume that a divine purpose is moving through all living and spiritual beings, and guiding them in their evolution, evil would be what willfully and deliberately seeks to corrupt and thwart that purpose.

Meridjet: That’s very good. Now you’re getting somewhere.

There is not a lot of that going on, as willfully as it would seem.

Don: But don’t pull the term definition thing. I hate that.

Meridjet: I had a point to make. :)

Don: We have to assume we both know the meanings of the words we are using, or we can’t have a useful discussion.

Meridjet: I can’t assume that, because I am not coming from the same perspective, or even really close.

Don: Whenever somebody does that to me, I am always tempted to tell them to look it up in the dictionary. LOL

Meridjet: Testy testy :)

Don: No, true.

Meridjet: I understand. However, I did have a reason beyond being irritating.

Don: We use a common language, therefore we must assume we share common understandings of words.

Ok, I accept your reason. It did sort of derail the conversation, though, didn’t it?

Meridjet: I try to have a common denominator, sometimes it is not apparent.

Only because you wanted to drive the point home for ten minutes. lol

Don: I appreciate the difficulty you must sometimes have with common concepts.

Meridjet: :) Thanks, I think.

Don: :-) Language is so tricky.

Meridjet:
Yes.
Don: LOL

That whole “how did Lucifer rebel” thing is going to bug me for days.

Meridjet: lol

Sheta Kaey About Sheta Kaey

I teach people to perceive, communicate, and work with spirits. Beyond that, I'm kinda normal.

Sometimes I write things. Sometimes I edit things. Sometimes, people even see them.

Comments

  1. I like these chat posts. They’re always very interesting and we get to see what a conversation with Meridjet is like.

  2. Paul Raymond :

    Love this chat – very thought provoking.
    I come from a Catholic and then a Protestant Christian background – there are significant differences between the two. However, both expect you to believe everything and anything that is either written in the bible or thrusted down your throat by the church and their instruments.
    It takes a significant questioning and then rejection of all previous indoctrinations to enable a lover of spirits, such as myself, to process and then enjoy the wonderful new world of spiritual companionship and intercourse.

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